ABA Paralegal Certificate Plus Health Insurance Experience

I am a forty year old male who graduated from an ABA Approved Paralegal Certificate Program in 08. I have never worked as a Paralegal. I have signed up with two different legal employment firms and sent my resume to several law firms since April 08 with no success.

I also have seven years of health insurance experience. I was an Admin Assistant/Cust Svc Rep for 5 years and an Appeals/Complaints/Correspondence Resolution Specialist for two years. I was laid off. So I have extensive experience dealing with benefits, claims issues, telephonic customer service, and researching/resolving benefits and claims issues through appeals,complaints, and informational correspondence. What kind of law would most fit my credentials? I assume that working at an insurance company or an insurance defense law firm would fit. Any other comments and suggestions?

P.S.: I am also worried about age and gender discrimination in the Paralegal Field, esp from attorneys and support staff who are younger than me. Please advise.

Your concerns about age and sex discrimination are well taken. I am male. I was forty-three when I opted for law as a career change. One can be male and over forty and be hired. I am proof it can, but I would still submit anyone, male or female and over forty or older, is subject to age discrimination. I also submit males can be subject to a wee bit of sex discrimination.

I found that many people misperceive male paralegals. Some people think male paralegals want to be lawyers. Or else they think paralegal is an entry-level law firm position with eventual promotion to lawyer. In fairness, female paralegals can suffer from this old wives' tale.

Some lawyers cannot abide male paralegals. They see males as a threat to their authority (and manhood, perhaps), primarily because males are less likely to put up with their bullying. Moreover, older and old-school attorneys are used to having female legal assistants. They cannot deal with the notion of having males assist them. Also, some female legal assistants cannot handle working with male legal assistants.

I'm not saying being male is an absolute deal-breaker for becoming a paralegal; after all, I was hired and worked as a paralegal for more than eleven years. But I am quite sure being male contributed to personality differences between my last (and most likely final) attorney and me. I am sure I have suffered misperceptions OTJ from at least one female nonlawyer. I am sure I have suffered a very minor amount of sex discrimination in my work searches. I am convinced I have also suffered from age discrimination in those searches.

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Finally, I like your credentials. You have a great background. As you have surmised, your background would be a great fit for insurance defense, either with an insurance company or in an insurance defense firm. You could also find a place in a plaintiffs' firm. My last firm employed a paralegal who worked primarily with insurance companies. She spent much of her day working with (or, depending or your point of view, fighting with) adjusters to obtain benefits for clients. She did a great job and didn't have anything like your background.

Good luck with your efforts.

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Finally, I like your credentials. You have a great background. As you have surmised, your background would be a great fit for insurance defense, either with an insurance company or in an insurance defense firm. You could also find a place in a plaintiffs' firm. My last firm employed a paralegal who worked primarily with insurance companies. She spent much of her day working with (or, depending on your point of view, fighting with) adjusters to obtain benefits for clients. She did a great job and didn't have anything like your background.

Good luck with your efforts.

Hospitals hire law firms to review what insurance companies have paid them and not paid them and should have paid them. I think it's called Quit Claims work. Paralegals who work on this stuff aren't really paralegals but are more insurance people, or medical coders. Some of the hospitals have in-house people who do this.

What is happening is the insurance companies are not paying what they are supposed to be paying and the hospitals have to continually audit EOB's (Explanation of Benefits) to get what they are owed.

Maybe you can get that type of work.

Some other suggestions: Plaintiff's firms working in Worker's Comp, Disability Claims, VA Benefits Law, as well as regular PI/negligence work. You should also check your local/state/federal government agencies - those that would deal primarily with processing claims for any type of benefits - these agencies often utilize paralegals.

With the recession and a lot of firms laying off staff, your lack of actual law firm experience is probably your biggest obstacle. You should join your local paralegal association, use Linked-In to network, and perhaps contact your local legal-aid office to see if you can volunteer to get some actual legal work experience under your belt. I know people who broke out the phone book, looked through the attorney ads, picked out the ones they thought 'looked good', and fired off their cover letter and resume and landed a job that way. Competition is strong right now so you have to use initiative and do something to set yourself apart from the rest.

Best of Luck!

Jane Do Girl in Milton, Florida said: I know people who broke out the phone book, looked through the attorney ads, picked out the ones they thought 'looked good', and fired off their cover letter and resume and landed a job that way....[Y]ou have to use initiative and do something to set yourself apart from the rest.

I got my first paralegal job by answering a law firm's ad for a person "to assist a busy attorney." The ad did not specify "paralegal," but it sounded like a paralegal job to me. After all, isn't a paralegal's job to assist attorneys?

The firm was actually hiring a nonlegal person to assist the shareholder with day to day and personal matters. But it turned out the firm was also hiring paralegals. The firm hired entry paralegals. I knew the firm and had wanted to work for it all along. An ex-partner taught one of my classes in paralegal school. An associate taught class one day.

I got on with the firm initially on contract. Someone resigned a month after I started and I got on full time. Sometimes you just have to be in the right place at the right time. But if you think about it, that's true for getting any kind of job.

I had the name wrong above about the EOB auditing that hospitals do. It's called "clean claims" not quit claims. The firm I work at doesn't do this type work, but my friend's firm does it, so I only know enought about it to be dangerous.

After completing an ABA paralegal certificate and moving to San Francisco I launched a nightmarish 4 month job search before basically giving up and going to a temp agency which plugged me in setting up meeting rooms and coffee/snack arrangements in said meeting rooms. This ended up being pretty fun, actually. I got to know many people in the firm, even the managing partner's personal assistant/secretary, who liked me and was pleased with the work ethic and responsiveness that I brought with me from the military. I asked the paralegal/support services manager for an informational interview for advice on how to break in as a paralegal. He told me to keep doing what I was doing until I found opportunities. After the contract was up I found an opportunity in Silicon Valley and abandoned law as a career- but several months later that firm called me and offered me an interview for a position that had opened. By then I was making more than I could probably ever make as a paralegal, so I declined the offer- but still it was somehow very validating to have recieved an offer like that after all of the hard work.
The technology job imploded a few years later so I went into healthcare, another place that often demands some "volunteer time" or "slave labor" to get those doors open. Think like a SWAT team when job hunting: sometimes you have to find "alternate modes of entry"! Good luck job seekers.

333 in Hayward, California said: After completing an ABA paralegal certificate and moving to San Francisco I launched a nightmarish 4 month job search ...abandoned law as a career- but several months later that firm called me and offered me an interview for a position that had opened. By then I was making more than I could probably ever make as a paralegal... sometimes you have to find "alternate modes of entry"! Good luck job seekers.

Your story is interesting. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. I'm known for writing some pretty bad stuff (true from my own experience) about law on these forums so thought I should clarify.

What was the opportunity you found in Silicon Valley that you took, abandoning law in the process? I'm curious what you found that, within several months, enabled you to make more money than you ever could've made as a paralegal.

What was your experience/background before that? I am asking because I know so many paralgls/legal secs who would give their right arm to change careers. I was asked by a young man (his sister's considering paralgl sch) just yesterday what I thought the percentage of paralegals was who regretted their decision to go into law; my honest answer was 90%. It seems as though you got into and right out of law in a very short time period. I was a legal sec (started as a word processor) for over 5 yrs before going back to school full time to get my BA in Economics. I graduate in Dec at 42. I've worked 20 hrs/wk the last 3 yrs and depleted my entire life savings. I was willing to give up a lot to get out. I HATED wrk'g for attys.

I had no other real work exp outside of law that would really get me anywhere. I worked in a customer service and collections once. I was good at it - had the highest paid accts most months - but at this point, I am not interested in dealing with the public. Are you in health care now?

333 in Hayward, California said: After completing an ABA paralegal certificate and moving to San Francisco I launched a nightmarish 4 month job search before basically giving up and going to a temp agency which plugged me in setting up meeting rooms and coffee/snack arrangements in said meeting rooms. This ended up being pretty fun, actually. I got to know many people in the firm, even the managing partner's personal assistant/secretary, who liked me and was pleased with the work ethic and responsiveness that I brought with me from the military. I asked the paralegal/support services manager for an informational interview for advice on how to break in as a paralegal. He told me to keep doing what I was doing until I found opportunities. After the contract was up I found an opportunity in Silicon Valley and abandoned law as a career- but several months later that firm called me and offered me an interview for a position that had opened. By then I was making more than I could probably ever make as a paralegal, so I declined the offer- but still it was somehow very validating to have recieved an offer like that after all of the hard work.
The technology job imploded a few years later so I went into healthcare, another place that often demands some "volunteer time" or "slave labor" to get those doors open. Think like a SWAT team when job hunting: sometimes you have to find "alternate modes of entry"! Good luck job seekers.

Excellent story of perserverance and resoucefulness.!!!!

kmm in Chadds Ford, Pennsylvania said: Excellent story of perserverance and resoucefulness.!!!!

It is also noted the he was able to "move" for a job. very excellent.

What was your experience/background before that? asked by dh in California. It is noted in detail in his first comment.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Your story is interesting. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. I'm known for writing some pretty bad stuff (true from my own experience) about law on these forums so thought I should clarify.

What was the opportunity you found in Silicon Valley that you took, abandoning law in the process? I'm curious what you found that, within several months, enabled you to make more money than you ever could've made as a paralegal.

What was your experience/background before that? I am asking because I know so many paralgls/legal secs who would give their right arm to change careers. I was asked by a young man (his sister's considering paralgl sch) just yesterday what I thought the percentage of paralegals was who regretted their decision to go into law; my honest answer was 90%. It seems as though you got into and right out of law in a very short time period. I was a legal sec (started as a word processor) for over 5 yrs before going back to school full time to get my BA in Economics. I graduate in Dec at 42. I've worked 20 hrs/wk the last 3 yrs and depleted my entire life savings. I was willing to give up a lot to get out. I HATED wrk'g for attys.

I had no other real work exp outside of law that would really get me anywhere. I worked in a customer service and collections once. I was good at it - had the highest paid accts most months - but at this point, I am not interested in dealing with the public. Are you in health care now?

dh - read his first comment.

dh in Northern CA, California said:
What was your experience/background before that? I am asking because I know so many paralgls/legal secs who would give their right arm to change careers. I was asked by a young man (his sister's considering paralgl sch) just yesterday what I thought the percentage of paralegals was who regretted their decision to go into law; my honest answer was 90%.

Keep in mind that countless people are gigantic pansies, too. Law is a fast paced and sometimes cutthroat industry. Especially litigation. Deadlines, deadlines, deadlines, stress, stress, stress, billing, billing, billing. Some people love it, and some shrivel up and want to run home. It doesn't make it a lousy field or job choice. In fact, it can be extremely lucrative and rewarding. It can also be placid and relaxing. It depends not only on what area of law, but also the attorney(s) you work for.

90% of paralegals regret going into law? I would argue that into the ground. I would say that 90% of sensitive or timid paralegals regret it. The ones with thick skin who can take care of themselves in a job that is almost by definition contentious do just fine.

I worked in the legal industry for more than eleven years. I'm neither timid nor sensitive. By the same token I am not an abuse monkey or punching bag for moody, difficult, ungrateful and abrupt attorneys.

It boils down to exhibiting respect. That issue transcends any issues of sensitivity or timidness. No one should have to abide any bad temper, shouting, browbeating or being on the receiving end of thrown telephones - whether or not one is thick or thin skinned.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: ...90% of paralegals regret going into law? I would argue that into the ground. I would say that 90% of sensitive or timid paralegals regret it. The ones with thick skin who can take care of themselves in a job that is almost by definition contentious do just fine.

I didn't meet any timid paralegals during my time in the industry. I also didn't meet any paralegals who enjoyed what they did. I always had great coworkers - I experienced very little drama with fellow staff. But during my last few years in, when I really started to hate it, I started to open up in private to trusted paralegals/secretaries about how I really felt about this profession - that I hated it, thought the pay was mediocre in relation to what attys expected, felt I was on a dead end road, and wanted to change careers. Every damn one of the opened up and said they, too, wanted out. I had no idea because they had good attitudes and were loyal employees. It wasn't until I started opening up privately that they, in turn, revealed to me what they really felt, and that's when I realized almost everyone who is not an atty does NOT like this field.

I say 90% because I'm sure there are some out there who actually liked it. But of the paralegals and legal secs with whom I spoke, 100% of them regretted it and wanted out.

The three most common reasons for staying: 1. fear; 2. too old; 3. procrastination. A couple of these girls got their real estate licenses while the market was still hot, and they always said, "I'm gonna...." but never followed thru. I think fear of change had something to do with that procrastination.

My attitude wasn't the best during the last few years because of the workload, expectations, demands and stress. I was loyal to a fault the whole damn time I worked in law. For example:

On a Monday my attorney and I had one of our several disagreements. On Tuesday my wife had to go to the ER. I couldn't take her. I thought I better stay at work lest I suffer backlash from the previous day's disagreement. So my 79-year-old mother took her. My wife was admitted to the hospital.

She was discharged the next day. As she was being discharged, I got sick. I had that same illness several times before. It would pass in a couple of days.

I couldn't stay out sick. I had to work because the attorney was leaving town the next Friday. He liked finishing a month's worth of work in a week and clear his desk before going on vacation. I knew this was coming. Days before I had planned to work all weekend to keep up.

I was sick but I worked Thursday. Friday morning came and I still was sick. My alarm went off at 5:00 a.m. I said to myself that I had to go in but it would be an SOB. I hauled my sorry sick ass out of bed and into the shower.

I passed out twice in the shower. My wife, who still was sick, somehow pulled me out of the shower. She called 911. I landed in the hospital. I was there for two and a half days - the weekend on which I desperately needed to work.

I returned to work on Wednesday and worked twelve hours straight. On Thursday I worked eighteen hours straight. My day ended at about 11:30 p.m. with me hauling a big box of docs something like fifteen miles to the 24-hour post office. They had to be mailed that day to meet a deadline or else.

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I thought the attorney and I worked well together that day (we actually always worked well together). I thought we eradicated any disagreements we had that day. I was wrong.

The attorney gratuitously gave me an extra personal day for my efforts. That individual never called me while I was ill - not in the hospital or at home. Two years later he kicked my sorry ass to the street for reasons I still don't understand.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued from above....

I thought the attorney and I worked well together that day (we actually always worked well together). I thought we eradicated any disagreements we had that day. I was wrong.

The attorney gratuitously gave me an extra personal day for my efforts. That individual never called me while I was ill - not in the hospital or at home. Two years later he kicked my sorry ass to the street for reasons I still don't understand.

Hi DLP - I cannot believe what I just read. Your determination is admirable to say the least. You had a lot of dedication that I did NEVER had for this industry. I CANNOT stand being a doormat or the feeling that I've let someone walk on me. That is why I was such a stickler about the overtime issue. I get off on time, period. I never showed them my true attitude, how I really felt. I was always quiet and soft spoken - not one to rock the boat - but when it came to "This has to be done over the weekend" - because that happened once, I just told them that I'm sorry but I cannot come in this weekend because my daughter and I had plans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're a doormat. I admire your attitude and, when I read how you've handled situations, I think it's a good example. I think that I developed some very bad and stubborn habits that, while I think they were very appropriate in the legal industry, I can't carry those habits with me when - IFIFIF - I get what I consider a real job, or a career rather, after graduating. I have become stubborn and inflexible, and I keep telling myself that I have to stop that. It worked great for me in law firms though.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Your determination is admirable to say the least. You had a lot of dedication that I did NEVER had for this industry.....

I was raised with a strong work ethic. I was raised to always go in to work. It wasn't so much dedication, but more a matter of trying to be professional and doing the right thing, despite the bullshiit. You saw how that individual finally exhibited his gratitude.

I came close to walking out of that place a couple of times, but I simply couldn't. I had responsibilities, and needed the paycheck and health insurance.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I was raised with a strong work ethic. I was raised to always go in to work. It wasn't so much dedication, but more a matter of trying to be professional and doing the right thing, despite the bullshiit. You saw how that individual finally exhibited his gratitude.

I came close to walking out of that place a couple of times, but I simply couldn't. I had responsibilities, and needed the paycheck and health insurance.

I, too, was raised to have a strong work ethic. My father always told us that he was late to work once in 30 years - when his truck broke down. When we were teens and had early jobs on the weekends, sometimes he was pulling us out of bed. He is up at 5am every morning reading the paper.

I was never late until my last 6 months at the last job. I couldn't get out of bed, hit the snooze too many times, and would rush in the door at 3 minutes after. I remember thinking that I couldn't allow that to continue and forced some self discipline to get up. Once I made my decision to go back to school and back to my hometown, getting up was easy. My late spell lasted about 2 or 3 weeks. I don't ever remember being late before then.

Last month, my current supervisor called my last supervisor in OC to check my reference. I wanted to see what she would say. And to my surprise, she said great things. I know the atty whom I left would NOT, however. And the woman who hired me wrote me a letter of rec.

I maintained my good attitude and hid my true feelings, but the one major complaint they had was my inflexibility for putting in extra time, and I always took my entire 1-hour lunch, to the chagrin of one of my partners sometimes.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I was raised with a strong work ethic. I was raised to always go in to work. It wasn't so much dedication, but more a matter of trying to be professional and doing the right thing, despite the bullshiit. You saw how that individual finally exhibited his gratitude.

I came close to walking out of that place a couple of times, but I simply couldn't. I had responsibilities, and needed the paycheck and health insurance.

And I'm curious, you said your atty didn't say much when he let you go. Did he not say anything? "Sorry but it's not working."??? Did you have any idea at all or see it coming?

Our relationship had its ups and downs, but, truly, I was shocked, surprised, chagrined and many other things when he canned me.

Oh, he had plenty to say. He said I was loyal. He said I was an excellent employee and professional at all times. He said my work had improved over time, which, he said, he had expected, adding that I wrote the most thorough disclosure of anyone in the office. But he said I had to go because, he thought, we had too much tension in our relationship. He kicked me to the curb after I had worked for him a month short of seven (7) years. He needed seven (7) years to decide he and I had tension? Come on. During that time I gave him everything. The episode you read, above, was one example.

I asked him for an LOR, to which he agreed. He said later that morning he'd write the letter that afternoon or the next day. I had never seen him break a promise in the nearly seven years I worked for him, but the lying sack never provided the letter. I'd be damned if I'd call him to follow up.

The best part was he noted my age (55 at the time), along with my experience. He said I'd find another job within a month. I was in disbelief, but I desperately wanted to ask him if he had ever heard of age discrimination. I kept my yap buttoned because, after all, he said he'd give me an LOR. My wife and I are convinced he said those things to assuage any guilt he felt for canning me.

He said I would find another job for more money. He even gave a figure, which was far more than he was paying me, and, amazingly, the precise figure the market paid for a paralegal with my experience. He hadn't given me a raise in four and a half years - but - he said early on in my employment that I should never ask for a raise, nor remind him of my anniversary date. I threw that in his face. He said nothing. He had it coming.