Resume Gaps and Past Employer that is no longer in business Questions

I too am looking for the best way to explain an almost 10 year gap in my employment history...I left the workplace about 2 years after I had my son to be a stay-at-home mom as well as help with our own business. Like a dummy I didnt update my skills in school but like I said I have been involved with our business (Advertising and promotions) for the past 8 years. How can I list this on my resume??

Also, one of my last major employers has completely transitioned and is no longer a company anymore (ie, it was bought by another larger company of whom I do not know the names as it has happened twice from what I have heard!). Do I list this as the last known name of the company as it was when I was employed there?? Side note, I was in a supervisory position but I was also terminated from this posotion after a year (for a reason that was bullcrap but couldnt fight it because AZ is a right to work state)!

HELP! (and thanks!)

I would use the home base business as an job you worked for because basically that is exactly what you are doing. first hours then you can figure out whether this is a part-time, full-time, or seasonal. Even if the money is going in pot you still need to figure out a pay rate. Yes! you should diffently put the company on your resume even if it doesn't exist any more, becuase it will leave a bigger gap in your work history and you don't want to explain more than you have to. Make a notation on your resume, for example

March 2, 1997 Johnson & Johnson N/K/A Powder Fresh
December 3, 2006

You can try a functional resume. Functional resumes emphasize knowledge, skills and abilities and deemphasize employment history. Also, there is no rule that compels you to state dates of employment or education on your resume. After all, your resume is your document. You must tell the truth on your resume, but you can be what you want to be on it.

Take a look at the functional resume format at this link:

www.bankrate.com/nsc/news/pf/20060517b1.asp

Good luck with your job search. Yes, right-to-work is bullcrap. It's coming up on the November ballot in Colorado.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You can try a functional resume. Functional resumes emphasize knowledge, skills and abilities and deemphasize employment history. Also, there is no rule that compels you to state dates of employment or education on your resume. After all, your resume is your document.

Two bits of caution as it relates to Displaced Legal's advice. While he/she is absolutely correct, you may run into some issues if you don't list dates and/or education on your resume. Unfortunately, the resume screening software that many companies employ will reject or "red-flag" a resume if it is missing these bits of information. So you may be 100% qualified and the PERFECT candidate but your resume will not even make it into a recruiters hands.

My other "heads-up" is that functional resumes can tend to be seen as red-flags in and of themselves. Right or wrong, many recruiters and hiring managers will assume a candidate has used a functional format because he/she has something to hide. As a professional resume writer, I am reluctant to craft a resume that is solely functional. I will certainly use functional ELEMENTS, but I strongly believe that a completely functional resume will put you at a disadvantage.

I know it's been a few months since you posted your question. I hope you have had success in your search.

K.C.
www.TandemResumes.com/Resumes/Home/html

The correct URL is www.TandemResumes.com/Resumes/Home.html

K.C. in Seattle, Washington said: [Y]ou may run into some issues if you don't list dates and/or education on your resume. Unfortunately, the resume screening software that many companies employ will reject or "red-flag" a resume if it is missing these bits of information. So you may be 100% qualified and the PERFECT candidate but your resume will not even make it into a recruiter's hands.

Not all companies use resume screening devices. Moreover, you may not realize that employment is an exclusionary process. Employers and recruiters look for excuses to exclude candidates. A resume may get past the screening device, but employers and recruiters will still see dates. Dates can tip off employers to lengthy unemployment periods and, even worse, age.

Why volunteer potentially lethal information?

K.C. said: "My other "heads-up" is that functional resumes can tend to be seen as red-flags in and of themselves. Right or wrong, many recruiters and hiring managers will assume a candidate has used a functional format because he/she has something to hide. As a professional resume writer, I am reluctant to craft a resume that is solely functional. I will certainly use functional ELEMENTS, but I strongly believe that a completely functional resume will put you at a disadvantage.

And I believe a chrono resume will put many people at a disadvantage. Here again, employment is an exclusionary process. A chronological resume (that exhibits dates of employment) is poised to doom a candidate who exhibits a lengthy unemployed period. The recruiter or hiring manager will wonder why the candidate has not been working and automatically assume the worst. Right or or wrong, that person will be excluded without being given a chance to tell his/her story.

Continued, below...

Continued from above...

Once again, your resume is your document. You want it to showcase your knowledge, skills and abilities. You want your resume to generate interviews. You must tell the truth on resume, but do not put any negatives on it, such as employment dates or education dates, that will make it easy for employers and recruiters to exclude you.

Nervous but Ready in Rancho Cordova, California said: I too am looking for the best way to explain an almost 10 year gap in my employment history...I left the workplace about 2 years after I had my son to be a stay-at-home mom as well as help with our own business. Like a dummy I didnt update my skills in school but like I said I have been involved with our business (Advertising and promotions) for the past 8 years. How can I list this on my resume??

Also, one of my last major employers has completely transitioned and is no longer a company anymore (ie, it was bought by another larger company of whom I do not know the names as it has happened twice from what I have heard!). Do I list this as the last known name of the company as it was when I was employed there?? Side note, I was in a supervisory position but I was also terminated from this posotion after a year (for a reason that was bullcrap but couldnt fight it because AZ is a right to work state)!

HELP! (and thanks!)

Same thing happend to me. Worked for 20 years, took time off, worked temp jobs for 3 years, another 4 until I was DOWNSIZED! = Now unemployed for 3! The gaps do matter! Do functional......signed, still looking for adm assistant job in Henry County, GA.

Have you done any volunteer work? Add that to your resume, too. I agree that a functional or a combination resume would work best for you.

A different kind of gap happened to me. I came to US one year after my husband was relocated here en NY, leaving behind a successful career in one of the biggest private banks in my country, started on 1987 (16+ yrs at the time I left). I received an H-4 visa which is a 100% dependent visa and a highly restrictive one. H-4 visa holders are not allowed employment in US and are not eligible to get a Social Security Number.
I have got my working papers just a couple of weeks ago after 4.5+ years of waiting.
For more than four years, I have been patiently waiting the opportunity to restart my career in a bank. It has been my goal from the beginning.
I have been trying to keep myself active all this years, I did volunteer in many places and took every opportunity I could to avoid getting stuck, printing a 4 years gap in my employment history.

(sorry, I've had to split my message in two)

For the last 4 years I was able to get good progress, learned a lot, got a "dental coding and billing" certificate and had the opportunity to be the "billing and administrative person" of several dental offices.
Of course, giving almost free services makes one very popular...
Believe me, it's a strange situation that makes feel you bad.
In one hand, you cannot work for money. It doesn't mean that you don't need money, but those are the rules.
In the other hand, people who has all the right to be employed and recognized is putting back because employers will try to convince you to do the work (for a stipend, metrocard, gifts, $5 an hour, you-name-it).
Employers want cheap but highly skilled professionals doing the work!
I opted to train the people who already worked in every office and move on, just giving them occasionally support and celebrating their progress. This way I keep my references and respect others work.
I know where I want to go and I've been focused on it from the beginning: I want to restart my career in a bank.
The "how" is the tricky part. I'm not sure how to plan my resume. I would appreciate any advice.

My two cents are functional resume for you, too. You want to emphasize your banking experience. However, but unfortunately and through no fault of your own, your banking experience is not recent. IMO, only, listing 1987 prominently as your last banking employment would torpedo your chances big time.

Research and obtain keywords pertaining to your banking work and functions. Set up a "Highlights of Qualifications" section after your contact information and desired position. Use bullet point one-liners to describe your banking licenses and certifications, etc., number of years of experience, most important/primary job functions and greatest accomplishments. Work in as many keywords as you can in your "Highlights" section.

Under your "Highlights" section, set up a "Professional Experience" section. Work up paragraphs comprised of action verbs and short sentences that support your highlights. Again, use keywords to the hilt.

Underneath that section, set up an employment section. Just state employer names, cities and states, using a single line for each. You can use a single line, "Dental Billing and Coding Specialist, Flushing, New York," to cover that experience. I don't think I would list actual years from and to, but I would list number of years with each employer.

Set up similar sections for accomplishments and education. Set up a "Skills" section and emphasize your computer abilities. You could put that section either above "Education" or below the "Highlights" section. You probably want to end your resume with "References Available On Request."

Take a look at the link I listed, above, to a functional resume form.

At least that's what I would do. Once more, only my two cents. You may receive different suggestions. Good luck with your job search.

Thank you for your comments! I really appreciate your inputs. :)
Displaced Legal, I worked for the bank from July/1987 until Feb/2004. I left my position just 2 weeks before I came to US.
Although the experience is not recent, I thought it was not too old.... and 17 years of experience it's about the half of my entire life.
I planned to start applying for a job teller position. I know it is not too much but it could lead to a smooth transition.
Funny thing is, I used to earn more when I left my job back in 2004, than the wage that a bank teller earns today here in NYC!

Rossana in Flushing, New York said: I worked for the bank from July/1987 until Feb/2004. I left my position just 2 weeks before I came to US.
Although the experience is not recent, I thought it was not too old.... and 17 years of experience it's about the half of my entire life.

Thanks for the clarification. Given your circumstances, your experience is not old at all.

You could try a combo chrono-functional resume format. That format uses elements from both style of resumes. IMO you should consider toning down your banking experience somewhat if you're going for a teller position. Otherwise HR may deem you as overqualified.

Your wage story isn't surprising at all. I was called about a part-time teller job. It would have paid $8-$11/hour, depending on experience, of which I had none. I was surprised that teller jobs around here pay so little. I said "no." Good thing; Wachovia took over that bank and you know what shape Wachovia is in.

Once more, good luck with your job search.

Rossana in Flushing, New York said: Thank you for your comments! I really appreciate your inputs. :)
Displaced Legal, I worked for the bank from July/1987 until Feb/2004. I left my position just 2 weeks before I came to US.
Although the experience is not recent, I thought it was not too old.... and 17 years of experience it's about the half of my entire life.
I planned to start applying for a job teller position. I know it is not too much but it could lead to a smooth transition.
Funny thing is, I used to earn more when I left my job back in 2004, than the wage that a bank teller earns today here in NYC!

You actually have a VERY attractive career history.

Displaced legal professional has offered some very sound
advice.

To get around any "over qualifying" challenges - simply add
a brief explanation as to why you are applying for a particular
position in your resume.

Lastly - you should consider an "Accomplishment Resume Format"

Here you would list out all of your QUANTIFIABLE accomplishments
under: "Banking Experience"

Next dig into all of the volunteer work, and other skills you
have collected over these years and list them under another
category such as: "General Management Experience"

By hitting the prospective employer up front with these
POWERFUL achievements you have much greater chance of
getting an interview.

Hope this helps,

Ben B.

www.yourresumeassistant.com

Resume Assistant in BH, California said: To get around any "over qualifying" challenges - simply add a brief explanation as to why you are applying for a particular position in your resume.

Yes. But employers always assume an "overqualified" candidate would stay only until he/she finds a "better" job. One could swear on a stack of Bibles that one only wants a job and is entirely willing to stay. But employers never believe you and it's hard to convince them otherwise.

"Overqualified," as you probably know, is also secret code for being "too old." Finally, it boils down to money. Employers always, again, assume an "overqualified" candidate will want more money when the truth is the candidate just wants a job and would take less.

Resume Assistant in BH, California said: [Y]ou should consider an "Accomplishment Resume Format"

Here you would list out all of your QUANTIFIABLE accomplishments
under: "Banking Experience"

Next dig into all of the volunteer work, and other skills you
have collected over these years and list them under another
category such as: "General Management Experience"

By hitting the prospective employer up front with these
POWERFUL achievements you have much greater chance of
getting an interview.

Great idea! Something like that could be worked into a combo/functional resume.

Thanks for posting.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Yes. But employers always assume an "overqualified" candidate would stay only until he/she finds a "better" job. One could swear on a stack of Bibles that one only wants a job and is entirely willing to stay. But employers never believe you and it's hard to convince them otherwise. "Overqualified," as you probably know, is also secret code for being "too old." Finally, it boils down to money. Employers always, again, assume an "overqualified" candidate will want more money when the truth is the candidate just wants a job and would take less.

Great idea! Something like that could be worked into a combo/functional resume. Thanks for posting.

Some good points there Displaced Legal...

Yes the accomplishment format is a "hybrid" format so you
can plug in parts of the functional, chronological and
depending on your career goals - the portfolio and the
academic CV.

One final point - In my experience interviewers EXPECT
all candidates to have WEAK and STRONG areas...

The interviewer attempts to BALANCE these against each
other...Are they looking for someone who has extensive
experience? Are they looking for someone who fits the
COMPANY culture? Is that more important? Are they looking
for the candidate who is RELIABLE and a steady worker?

Are they searching for the CREATIVE candidate who's
innovative and breaks the rules?

We can NEVER be 100% sure but what we can do is RESEARCH
the role - get a copy of the application and craft our
resumes to match...

If you can position YOURSELF to hit the TOP 3 attributes
on the companies "person profile" You're already light-years
ahead of your competition...and those SMUDGES on your
resume (if positioned WELL) will be prove insignificant.

Talk soon,

Ben B

www.yourresumeassistant.com/

Resume Assistant in BH, California said: We can NEVER be 100% sure but what we can do is RESEARCH the role - get a copy of the application and craft our resumes to match...

That's the problem with gaining employment altogether. One can never be one hundred percent sure. Gaining employment has become a highly inexact, nonquantifiable science, and it is frustrating for that and other reasons.

One never knows the employer's or HR's true agenda. For example, I think employers sometimes interview older candidates in bad faith. They neither intend to consider nor hire them. They interview older candidates to get their EEOC ticket punched or comply with some reg requiring them to do so. Or hiring managers pressure HR to supply candidates. HR submits anyone just to hush the hiring managers and to prove it is doing its job. I am convinced one employer interviewed me strictly for that reason. I was qualified for the position but didn't stand a realistic chance to get it.

Getting a job shouldn't be some kind of black art. IMO it's become that way over the past ten or fifteen years, at least.

Gaps in employee resumes should NOT, however, be a priori reasons to toss the resume out or not to hire someone. If someone has a gap but has legitimate and documented reasons for that gap, such as a) economically motivated layoffs, b) school attendance, c) a work-related trip with tickets and documents to prove it, or d) other legitimate and documented reasons for a gap, and the person is able and willing to do the job, then keep the resume and give the prospective employee a fair chance.

I realize this post is old, but I have to jump in here and agree with K.C. that functional resumes are often a red flag for hiring managers.

Just my .02.

Jennifer

Jennifer Anthony in Woodland, Washington said: I realize this post is old, but I have to jump in here and agree with K.C. that functional resumes are often a red flag for hiring managers.

Then both of you are wrong. A chrono resume may be fine for someone who is recently employed, but it can kill someone who has been unemployed for a while and/or has an erratic employment history.

Among other problems, a chrono resume highlights boldly extended or erratic periods of unemployment. Why should a candidate showcase extended or erratic unemployment history? Hiring managers will not give fair consideration to such candidates, especially in this economy when they have so many recently downsized (and employed) candidates from which to choose.

Employment is no longer an inclusionary process. HR and hiring managers look for reasons to exclude candidates. Why make it easy for them? You do that with a chrono resume. Functional resumes sell a candidate's knowledge, skills and abilities, which is really a candidate's stock in trade and what employers buy. A listing of past employers goes near the bottom on a functional resume.

Hi "Displaced"

Since you find it necessary to disagree or make negative remarks to all of my posts...can you tell me when you became the nationally published expert on the subject of resumes?

I'm just curious...

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Then both of you are wrong. A chrono resume may be fine for someone who is recently employed, but it can kill someone who has been unemployed for a while and/or has an erratic employment history. Among other problems, a chrono resume highlights boldly extended or erratic periods of unemployment. Why should a candidate showcase extended or erratic unemployment history? Hiring managers will not give fair consideration to such candidates, especially in this economy when they have so many recently downsized (and employed) candidates from which to choose.

Employment is no longer an inclusionary process. HR and hiring managers look for reasons to exclude candidates. Why make it easy for them? You do that with a chrono resume. Functional resumes sell a candidate's knowledge, skills and abilities, which is really a candidate's stock in trade and what employers buy. A listing of past employers goes near the bottom on a functional resume.

Jennifer Anthony in Woodland, Washington said: Since you find it necessary to disagree or make negative remarks to all of my posts...can you tell me when you became the nationally published expert on the subject of resumes?

I'm just curious...

Why don't you explain why I'm wrong, Jennifer? Please explain why a chronological resume is better for someone who has not been employed for a while or has an erratic employment history. Please explain why a chronological resume is better for a career changer. Please comment about how the employment process is inclusionary as opposed to exclusionary.

Until recently and except for a year off to go back to school I was employed more or less continuously for thirty-three years in three industries. I obtained my jobs with resumes I had written myself. So, I think I know a thing or two about resumes. One need not be published to know and understand resumes, Jennifer. I stand by my comments.

One more comment for you, Jennifer. Posters are allowed to disagree with other posters' comments. I happen to disagree with yours.

For my legal resume, I have a chronological format, with all four of my jobs (20 years) and listing my duties and skills. For my teacher resume, I have a functional format. I have my previous four legal jobs listed, and then I have one long list of duties. (I am a new teacher, no previous teacher job).

I recently had an interview for a teaching position (which I didn't get). I put together a Summary, about six pages. I did extensive research on the criteria and questions a school principal would ask at an interview - and I put together a formal Summary regarding teacher qualities and how my previous legal experience crossed into teaching, and I listed interview questions - and answered them. The interviewer did use it, and it is something the company can keep for review. My interview was 30 minutes long. The guy before me got 15 minutes.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: I put together a formal Summary regarding teacher qualities and how my previous legal experience crossed into teaching, and I listed interview questions - and answered them.[QUOTE]I like that!

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: I put together a formal Summary regarding teacher qualities and how my previous legal experience crossed into teaching, and I listed interview questions - and answered them.

I like that! Great idea to find a way to gain credit for prior experience.

I had transitioned from professional aviation to law. I don't remember exactly how I drafted my functional resume, but I set forth my transferable skills. I compared my background working with flight students to working with clients. It's really not that different; both are customer service and public contact, and flight students are a different type of client. I also set forth my radio news and aviation technical writing experience as solid background for legal writing.

I got my first legal job three and a half months after I graduated from paralegal school and with the firm I wanted. Some people from my school were still trying six months after they graduated, so my functional resume apparently worked for me.

Stating you disagree is respectable. Saying I am "wrong" is just plain rude.

I still say that functional resumes are often a red flag for hiring managers.

I have been in the resume writing business for several years and I have written 500+ resumes with a 99.65% satisfaction rate. My articles are published on CareerBuilder, CNN, AOL, MSN, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Newsday, Chicago Tribune, The Arizona Republic, and The Sacramento Bee (just to nae a few). Additionally, my expert resumes have been selected for inclusion in nationally published career books so I am pretty certain that I know what I am talking about. :)

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: One more comment for you, Jennifer. Posters are allowed to disagree with other posters' comments. I happen to disagree with yours.

^

I know I made an error up there...the forum does not have an edit function.

Jennifer Anthony in Woodland, Washington said: Stating you disagree is respectable. Saying I am "wrong" is just plain rude.

I still say that functional resumes are often a red flag for hiring managers.

Why, Jennifer? As a resume writer, how would you draft a resume for people who have not worked for a while, or who want to change careers, or who want to return to previous work they haven't done in a while? You have written a statement against functional resumes and cannot or will not back it up, despite my asking you to do so. In the meantime, I set forth my reasoning why functional resumes are good for many people. I stand by my comments.

You have also not addressed my comments that employment is an exclusionary process. I stand by my comments on that issue as well.

Jennifer Anthony said: I have been in the resume writing business for several years and I have written 500+ resumes with a 99.65% satisfaction rate. My articles are published on CareerBuilder, CNN, AOL, MSN, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Newsday, Chicago Tribune, The Arizona Republic, and The Sacramento Bee (just to [nae] a few). Additionally, my expert resumes have been selected for inclusion in nationally published career books so I am pretty certain that I know what I am talking about.

Trying the old "appeal to authority" debating technique, Jennifer? Just because you are a so-called "authority" doesn't necessarily make something so, Jennifer. Even "authorities" can be wrong, and, in this case, you are wrong.

In the meantime, your listing of credits is simply a thinly-veiled attempt to use these free fora to shill your enterprise without paying Indeed.

My attempts at purely functional resumes ended the same way: not one single recruiter offerred to pass along the resume unless I added dates to it.

The functional can get a recruiters attention if you are posting on a job board. I was told back in July by one that my resume was the strongest she had seen in months on a particular job board. Then she said I had to add dates. I sent her the new copy, and I never heard from her again and she didn't return my calls.

Point is that age and spans of self or non-employment kill the resume. So now what... if you do a func resume it still must have dates.

Age at least is now hidden awaynon mine, I leave dates off college degrees and drop the first jobs off the end... my first page is summary and the second page is chrono. If there are some dates, then they don't come back and ask for more dates. Actual lying about age gets caught by the way, when they link to social security after hiring, someone will probably notice the discrepency, based on what i've read elsewhere on the web.

The giant block of self-employment I can't hide. No matter how much, or little, I want to explain it, employers act like we are no longer qualified to do what we did only 6 years ago. I read elsewhere on this board that presence of the term self-employed gets a resume instantly deleted by some employers. I believe that.

So nothing personal, but I haven't heard a response that I like to the original post in this thread.

I am curious, if anyone has any factual knowledge of "stretching the truth" of self-employment, treating that period as if we were working for another company. Yeah i know how bad that sounds, but i'm just wondering if anyone has any first or second hand knowledge in that area.

I have a feeling "nervous but ready" is long gone... if not. How did the job search go? What worked on the resume?

tiberious in Dallas, Texas said: My attempts at purely functional resumes ended the same way: not one single recruiter offerred to pass along the resume unless I added dates to it.

The functional can get a recruiters attention if you are posting on a job board. I was told back in July by one that my resume was the strongest she had seen in months on a particular job board. Then she said I had to add dates. I sent her the new copy, and I never heard from her again and she didn't return my calls.

So don't deal with headhunters. They are essentially worthless and are one additional gatekeeper with which to deal. Apply to companies directly.

You should list names and locations of your most important employers at the bottom of your functional resume, and number of years with each one. List your employers for only the past ten years. Once again, your resume is your document. You always have to tell the truth, but not in an unflattering light. You can never lie about "self-employment" because you may have to verify it.

In your case, your functional resume accomplished its goal, which was to generate an affirmative response. That was a start. I probably would have asked that headhunter why she needed dates of employment at that point of the discussions if she said my resume was so strong.

In any event, don't forget, resumes, cover letters, etc. are sales tools intended to excite companies to meet with you. At an interview you may have to own up to your employment dates, but you will at least have presented your message to, and, hopefully, impressed, another human being in person.

Good luck with your job search.

tiberious in Dallas, Texas said: I am curious, if anyone has any factual knowledge of "stretching the truth" of self-employment, treating that period as if we were working for another company. Yeah i know how bad that sounds, but i'm just wondering if anyone has any first or second hand knowledge in that area.

"you must always tell the truth in a resume" - really? what planet is that person living on? Telling the truth only works for the 500Company "perfect" android employee who worked for the same company 15 or 20 years.If everyone "told the truth in their resume" then most would not be employed.How many employers "tell the truth" about jobs/companies they work for to people inerviewed? Look at Lehman and BearSterns.If all must tell the truth in resumes then all employers should be held to the same standard regarding themselves and vacant jobs.Since that will never happen, "it's a game two can play." Many people stretch the truth like prolonging dates or filling gaps with jobs they really never had.The thing is not to get caught.If you have a letter of reference, a legit name and phone number of a person who can "stand in" as your reference, why not? It seems employment is not a basic right anymore but something for "the specially anointed" and yes, the whole interviewing and hiring process IS exclusionary so why help them do that.Worst case scenario, they ask for salary history and "W2s or paystubs" from jobs you stretch or never had? I'm not sure that asking for such info is legal or acceptable.Nobody does that in New York, I don't know about Texas. Are they looking to hire and fill a spot or "investigate" and dig for dirt? You can find dirt on anyone if you dig hard enough!! Previous tax returns, W2s and paystubs are private info.
I know of at least 5 people here in NY who stretch job dates or other "bad things" on resumes who have never been caught and never will as they follow the reference scenario I described above.Continued below....

If you have the education, skills and viable work history, you should be employed.Period.So big deal if you have a "gap" or "took some time off to raise children." Someone has to do that.I took some time off in the 90s to care for my cancer-stricken father.I should be penalized for that? So you chose to be self-employed.You were working, you made money, you were gainfully spending your time.That is the most important thing.In this current state of economy, employers are super-picky. I say do whatever you have to in order to get that job and put bread on your table.Just do it wisely.We are not all saints and CERTAINLY the employers are not.I know people don't like the truth and this job hunt is "one sided" (=for the employer).

Grant013 in New York, New York said: The thing is not to get caught.....We are not all saints and CERTAINLY the employers are not. I know people don't like the truth and this job hunt is "one sided" (=for the employer).

Don't forget, Tanya, liars can be caught. The operative word is "can." You can be fired if you're caught lying. Bad enough not to have a job, but you'll be in more trouble if you develop a reputation for lying.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: Worst case scenario, they ask for salary history and "W2s or paystubs" from jobs you stretch or never had? I'm not sure that asking for such info is legal or acceptable.

They can ask for proof of employment. You're forgetting companies can call ex-employers. Companies can also ask for credit history, which will turn up employers.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: I know of at least 5 people here in NY who stretch job dates or other "bad things" on resumes who have never been caught and never will as they follow the reference scenario I described above.

Does that condone lying? Whatever. This not an ethics class. The long and short of it is if one "can" get caught in a lie, one just might. Each person must decide if one should run that risk. I submit that risk is hight with the ease of obtaining personal information these days.

To thine own self be true.

Does that condone lying? Whatever. This not an ethics class. The long and short of it is if one "can" get caught in a lie, one just might. Each person must decide if one should run that risk. I submit that risk is high with the ease of obtaining personal information these days.

Actually "ethics" and "personal dirt" is exactly what these employers are looking for.It's not just about skills and education.Many of them want this special kind of "fit." You'd think this is a marriage or buying a home or something.They want a reason to disqualify you.Ethics applies to the employer as well, which apparently never comes up in this job hunt process.The whole thing is unfairly skewed.I'm speaking for New York only.Not everyone asks for credit reports here.Most of my interviewers never asked me because I prefer to work for small-medium companies.Some bosses weren't even computer literate, moreover.Big companies have the people, the time and the money to pay for background checks and sit analyzing credit reports.They are the ones that want this special, "searching for the Grail" kind of "fit".Get real; the days of staying at a job for 20 years is long gone in NYC.I am not borrowing money or asking for a mortgage.I am not working with life insurance, stocks or others that require credit checks - in which case a check is justifiable.

How about all those jobs that are NOT going to appear on the credit report because one was paid cash? I had a 2 jobs like that and both are on my resume.Does that mean one is lying? The credit report is not the Holy Gospel. So what, they are going to assume I'm lying and automatically disqualify me because it "looks weird" to their dinosaur brain? It's personal business what jobs someone takes and how they are paid.BTW, in many states asking the former employer re salary info is illegal and former employers don't give out that info as they don't want to be sued.They will give dates of employment and job duties - this is standard procedure in NY.People lie about previous salaries too.What are the chances that they will pay you better than your last employer if you made crap before? Remember, they have dinosaur brains - they want to pay less and get more.Then this cycle never ends - because people insist on "telling the truth". I'm not condoning lying - but if that's what it takes to get to where you want to be, and you do it so well you never get caught, why not? How do you think certified doctors from foreign countries get good jobs here after they finish their residency practice here? They pad their resume.You think they will work 8.00 per hour cleaning teeth if one has 15 years medical experience in Russia or wherever? I know 3 doctors who have padded or "not totally truthful" resumes. In 25 years nobody got caught.One is already retired after a successful internal medicine career of 29 yrs and still waiting to "get caught." All I said was "do it but use caution." I still stand by that.We can be self righteous or pay our bills and put bread on the table.I choose the second option.

When employers are held to the same standard as employees in this job hunt process, then I see no problem in anyone being completely truthful about experience, education dates, salary, credit, shoe size and other such things.In an ideal world,that would be the case.But we know that will never happen.We are not living in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia where every step you made, breath you took, person you spoke to, job you took, salary you made, did you report it or not, was it rubles or dollars and it goes on and on.I think people get the point.The employees (and citizens) have SOME rights during the job hunt process, or so I would like to believe.Lots of people don't have "ideal" resumes or backgrounds.Does this mean they should all work at Burger King for 8.00 an hour?

Grant013 in New York, New York said: [I]n many states asking the former employer re salary info is illegal and former employers don't give out that info as they don't want to be sued.

I don't buy that asking for or providing salary information for ex-employers carries criminal penalties. If so, please show me where in the law.

Grant013 said: People lie about previous salaries too. What are the chances that they will pay you better than your last employer if you made crap before?

See my comment, above, about providing salary information. Pay can be found out - either by asking an ex-employer or by running a credit check. Also, you should know what your job pays and ask for it. You don't necessarily have to disclose previous pay. That's history. Concern you

Grant013 said: I'm not condoning lying - but if that's what it takes to get to where you want to be, and you do it so well you never get caught, why not? How do you think certified doctors from foreign countries get good jobs here after they finish their residency practice here? They pad their resume. You think they will work 8.00 per hour cleaning teeth if one has 15 years medical experience in Russia or wherever? I know 3 doctors who have padded or "not totally truthful" resumes. In 25 years nobody got caught. One is already retired after a successful internal medicine career of 29 yrs and still waiting to "get caught." All I said was "do it but use caution." I still stand by that.

So, the end justifies the means? Sounds like Watergate. Would you knowingly want a doctor who has padded his/her resume to treat you? I wouldn't.

Sorry, Tanya, but your comments come across as a ringing endorsement for lying to employers.

Continued, below....

Continued from above....

Grant013 said: We can be self righteous or pay our bills and put bread on the table. I choose the second option.

All right, then, Tanya. What would do you if you found out a person you hired lied to get the job? Just food for thought. I normally don't defend employers, but fair is fair. Lying cuts both ways.

See my comment, above, about providing salary information. Pay can be found out - either by asking an ex-employer or by running a credit check. Also, you should know what your job pays and ask for it. You don't necessarily have to disclose previous pay. That's history. Concern yourself with the here and now.